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12/02/2009

Comments

Excellent article as it makes me think about the induction criteria. I believe the criteria should be artistic unity and influence on music. By artistic unity I mean were they truly great at getting at expressing themselves such that the listener is moved emotionally. Influence, being quite subjective to most, is the ability to adjust the future of music. This is a true testament to your ability to achieve truly great artistic unity. Simply put, if others' copy you then your work is awesome. The problem with most opinions is they see only a tiny fraction of the facets of music. Be it heavy metal, surf guitar or reggae, they miss the majority of music. As a result it becomes rather difficult to appreciate the effect of their artistic unity and influence. On this front I defer to the compilation of folks who vote on the induction. I am confident they have seen many of the facets and can give us the best representation of who is worthy. Concerning the yearly quota I absolutely agree. Induction should be based upon merit not quota. I see the point of forcing the issue but the law of diminishing returns is just that. If you read this and have not seen the promised land known as the Rock Hall, drop your pick and get out there. It is so much better than you can imagine. Long live the Hall!

The Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame certainly started out to recognize and glorify those folks who influenced and defined the genre. And they got it right for a few years. Then they inducted Billy Joel before the likes of ZZ Top and AC/DC (let alone Richie Valens or Gene Pitney, or Eric Clapton or Jeff Beck). When is the last time any of us walked into a piano lounge and was moved to scream "ROCK AND ROLL!!!!". So then and there the RRHOF became a side show. HOWEVER, it does serve to stoke a fire that us music fans happily throw various forms of accelerant on. And I applaud anyone (you) who has the Marshall Stacks to publically blog a very slippery slope. So nice one. Even though you are a total idiot for thinking the Chili Peppers deserve to be in before Genesis. Let me go put my flame proof suit on now!

Once again, no Moody Blues, Steve Miller or Joe Cocker. Simply unacceptable.

Jim, we've had R&R HOF nomination discussions in the past and usually there's some level of disagreement. Not this time. I think you've got it about right. Kiss is obviously this year's wedge pick, the one that will most arouse the most passionate debate. Though bombast is a rock staple that Kiss exploited better than just about anybody, to me the quality simply isn't there. Plodding, boring and second-rate. As for Genesis, it's about time that some nod toward Progressive rock be given. I'm not a fanatic of the genre, but both Genesis and Yes should be in. Their fan base is a passionate one, and even non-fans concede the brilliant musicianship of both bands. Chili Peppers are one of the top latter generation rock acts - a good pick. And you're right about five inductee per year mandate; the days of finding multiple absolutely solid choices at once expired around 2003 (AC/DC, Clash, Police, Elvis Costello all went in that year).

I am pretty sure Ace Frehley uses a wedge pick!

While arguments of who is worthy and who is not will continue ad infinitum, I was impressed with your idea that nominations need not occur on a yearly basis. I'd never thought of that before and it's a damn good idea whose time has come. That scratching sound we've all been hearing during the last few years of induction ceremonies aint' guitars -- it's the bottom of the barrel being vigorously and nearly shamefully scraped. Picking worthy inductees is now harder than Iggy's abs. With that said, I agree with almost all your comments, which I frankly find frightening. Nevertheless, I still love the Rock Hall and paid it a visit just a couple months ago. Question: does Bruce Cockburn rock enough to get in?


Harder than Iggys abs. Damn Rich you still have it!


Bruce Cockburn does not rock hard enough. Anyone who picket up a Banjo/dulcimer are verboten! What Jerry Garcia is in....but he took lots of acid which is clearly rock and roll.

Sadly, not enough people care about BruceC. I wish they did but I don't get a vote.


Bruce Cockburn is a virtuoso on guitar, and a brilliant lyricist.


How many hummable songs do you know about The International Monetary Fund...


IMF dirty MF
Takes away it can
Always making certain thats there one thing
to keep them on the hook with insupportable Debt....


And they call it democracy!


Guys like Bruce will never get their due. Too talented, too nuanced. Great in every way...Pacing the Cage is good as anything hes ever done.

wtf are you talking about? once the beatles and the stones became world-wide, the biggest british group in europe was the hollies.
they were one of the great influences on psychedic rock, up there with jefferson airplane, the byrds and mamas and the papas. and hello? crosby stills and nash would of course be nothing without the hollies.

oh and what's your deal with iggy pop? so you don't like his music, i'm not a big fan of it either. but you have to admit, the stooges were one of the founders of punk.

however, you are right about that whole madonna thing. it's pretty stupid that she got inducted before some of the people before her, who were greater and more suited for the rock and roll hall of fame. at this rate, britney spears and lady gaga will soon be on the list. hahaha

Thanks for reading and posting. I appreciate your comments but remain unconvinced about the hollies. Harmony vocals with pop sensabilities were Kingston trio, everly brothers and others before and maybe better.

I like look through any window as much as anyone(great drums)...but if you keep out Chicago b/c of cetera/foster then the hollies are out b/c of all I need is the air

I agree with you on your points about Abba and Madonna. I do believe that Genesis is deserving of induction they along with YES and ELP are leaders of prog rock. The Stooges are definitely rock. Raw Power, I Wanna Be Your Dog, Search and Destroy. Very Rock. RHCP doesn't deserve to be in yet for your most significant point made. A listers still not in. Leading this pack is Link Wray, arguably the greatest rock instrumentalist. Dick Dale, Johnny Burnette Trio, Dale Hawkins, Rush, Kiss, Dave Allan, SRV, Lonnie Mack there are a lot left. The hall never should have sold out and inducted Madonna and Run DMC in. Ticket sales will take care of themselves if credibility of an institution is ensured.


Eric,


All excellent points. Link Wray was a hero to almost every early axeman (Beck, Townshend, and SRV to name a few). ELP has not aged well and Rush may never make it solely for Geddy Lee's vocals. Kiss while influential in terms of bombastic showmanship just didn't have very good music.

A listers only for the hall!


Thanks for posting!

DARLENE LOVE “THE INTERVIEW”
http://michaelwestfall.tripod.com/id130.html

Darlene is a true American talent who belongs in the Rock and Roll hall of Fame

Micheal,

Nice interview (I encourage others to read it) and it does shed some light on Darlene's contributions to the music scene. I remain unconvinced that her contributions outside of those she made with Phil Spector are material

Thanks for reading and posting.

Fairly solid review. I think that Deep Purple, Yes, Rush, Thin Lizzy, and SRV should get in over ANY of these guys. Genesis should get in though.

Maybe so. I think that once you delve into the works of Thin Lizzy, you can appreciate it, but I don't think that'll happen. Then again, rather them than ABBA, right? (or not...)

How nice of them to drop another pile of $hit at the feet of a true R&R legend Steve Miller. Perhaps The Stooges would like to compare their Greatest "Hit" with The Steve Miller Bands greatest "Hits"?

Hey Kurt,

One of many criteria problems for RRHOF is this nebulous term "influence" as opposed to "hits." Many consistent hitmakers, like Stevie "guitar" Miller, have been overlooked in favor of acts like the Stooges who "influenced" Bono or some other key voting member.

I don't like it, but I understand politics.

I am working on a piece for this years candidates. Stay tuned and tanks for commenting.

Jim

Every time I read the induction criteria, I think, OK, it's not how many records you sold or how many teeny-boppers thought your costume was cool, it's all about who is responsible for creating a musical genre. Then I remember that Lonnie Mack, the guy who started virtuoso rock guitar, and, for that matter, blues-rock guitar, isn't in yet. It's a joke, people. Accept it and move on.

I say you can't throw the baby out with the bathwater Steve. Just because the Hall missed Lonnie Mack or Link Wray shouldn't mean we should discount all the other deserving members.

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